Nasdaq TradeTalks: Growing Influence in ESG Investing

Good afternoon.
午安

Welcome to Nasdaq trade talks to my host Jill Malandrino global markets reporter at Nasdaq.
歡迎來到"納斯達克"的貿易談判秀，我是Jill Malandrino，"納斯達克"的全球市場記者

We have a special panel for you on tap today about the growing influence of ESG investing.
我們今天的座談小組將會著重在於逐漸攀升的環境、社會和公司治理投資趨勢上

Joining me at markets light today, we have Evan Harvey, he's the director of corporate responsibility at NASDAQ.
加入我們的是Evan Harvey，"納斯達克"的企業社會責任董事

And we also have from FTSE Russell Alec young, he's a managing director of global markets research, and Tony Campos is a director of sustainable investment.
以及來自富時中國50的Alec young，他是全球市場研究的董事總經理和永續投資的董事， Tony Campos

Gentlemen, thank you for joining us at market sight today.
謝謝各位今天的參與

Alec I'd like to kick it off with you. 
Alec，我想先從你開始

Why is there such a big trend right now, what are the macro factors leading up into this push for ESG investing?
為什麼現在有這樣的流行趨勢，引起環境、社會和公司治理投資的重要因素是什麼?

Sure, Jill it's great to be with you.
當然，我很榮幸能來到這裡

I think there's several high-level kind of global macroeconomic forces that are driving increased ESG adoption among investors. 
我認為有許多高階層的宏觀經濟力量在驅使著投資者採納環境、社會和公司治理投資

The first thing would probably be just just shifting social norms with with some younger people globally Millennials different social priorities.
第一點大概就是跟上年輕人也就是Y世代的社會規範及社會優先事項

We're seeing increasing regulation shifts that are that are more open to incorporating. 
我們看到許多規章的改變，變得更一致

You know environmental social governance concepts.
關於環境、社會和公司治理的理念

We're also seeing technology and data, availability really increasing and those are things you really need in order to evaluate companies in terms of ESG. 
我們同時也看到提升的可用技術數據也就是我們在評估採納環境、社會和治理公司所需要的

You need access to information and the the incredible improvements that we're seeing in technology and ability to harness and interpret data are really also enabling increasing ESG adoption.
你需要獲得資訊的管道，我們所目睹的科技進步以及能控制解析數據的能力正是鞏固環境、社會和公司治理投資的原因

And finally I think climate change is definitely a factor that people I think increasingly recognized.
最後，我認為大眾慢慢開始意識到的氣候變遷也絕對是其中的原因

So to a certain extent there's a certain amount of societal inevitability about ESG
investing, especially when you're thinking about long time frames 20-30 years.
所以某種程度來說，環境、社會和公司治理投資是不可避免的社會趨勢尤其是當你把時間範圍拉長到20、30年

I think it's hard to envision going about you know investing without any thought for free ESG. 
我覺得很難想像開始著手於沒有環境、社會和公司治理的投資

I don't see the same question as well because this is what you do for us it is like how have you seen the industry evolved or even just the past 5-10 years.
我不這麼認為因為這就是你會做的事情就像是你有沒有看到過去產業5-10年的演變

Well I think that we're seeing on the company side in addition to what Alec is or I mentioned
has some other drivers that are bringing ESG to the forefront in terms of company management
恩我認為眼前所發生的公司轉變除了我和Alec所提到的之外還有其他原因驅使企業管理運用環境、社會和公司治理

But you've got this rise of this new kind of manager of companies where they're data-driven they're looking at new signals and performance things that are sort of outside the traditional bubble. 
但又有一票新的公司管理者受資料驅動，他們查看那些跳出傳統框架外的新現象跟工作性能

And so that's where yes she fits into their mindset and then you've also got this emergence of this discipline around enterprise risk and board management of enterprise risk and increasingly you're finding companies that have oversight for climate change in particular.
突然興起的企業風險管理和各門派的企業風險管理下發現公司有特別在監察氣候變遷

But other social and governance matters at the board level so they're including sustainability and ESG in that oversight role. 
由於董事會擔憂其他社會和公司治理問題所以他們監察項目也包含可持續性的環境、社會和公司治理

Tony Howard, ESG factors screens how are they being added to market benchmarks as it's
continued to evolve. 
Tony Howard，持續改變中的ESG投資該如何被納入市場指標?

Yeah, I mean I think certainly asset owners in particular are looking at this issue and there's a common perception that sort of Europe is leading and driving on this. 
恩，我認為資產擁有者更會投入這個議題，他們享有共同的看法並認為歐洲握有主導權

I think Asia and North America are certainly following quite closely and and increasing their attention in the area.
我想亞洲及北美洲也不遑多讓，努力地緊追在後

One of those areas is around benchmark creation and passive adoption so certainly among the largest asset owners there's a huge amount of passive assets.
其中地區之一試圖確立基準和採納被動型投資所以在許多資產擁有者名下會有大量的固定資產

And I think traditionally, ESG integration, may have been thought about as a an active manager integration pursuit.
傳統上，採納環境、社會和公司治理投資被視為一種積極的整合管理

So looking at more information factors some of the data and technology drivers that Alec was referring to. 
所以像Alec所提到的需要查閱其他更多科技數據資訊驅使動力

But on the passive side, there's a way to build some of this information into benchmark construction.
但以被動型投資角度來看，是有辦法可以將這些資訊納入基準結構

And both of the purposes of benchmarking but for passive allocations.
兩者目標都是設立基準而非被動型配置

So you can actually in the same way that you might reweighed or seek exposure to specific risk factors, you can do the same from an ESG perspective. 
所以你可以從ESG投資觀點來重新考慮評量或是尋找其他風險因素

So the techniques and sophistication with which investors are looking at that is sort of improving everyday. 
投資者每天查閱的精密技術一直在進步

Well, let's go back to you and talk about some of the myths around sustainable investing what are what are some of them about that. 
好，讓我們回到Alec這邊來談談可持續投資的錯誤看法

Sure, there's definitely some common misperceptions out there.
當然，目前存在許多普遍的誤解

One is that it's quite a narrow space and that all the companies are in the sort of green energy area but when we really look at you know especially a lot of the environmental
aspects of ESG investing, we're seeing a lot of diversity across cap sizes.
第一點就是可持續投資發展空間不大，所有公司都在所謂的綠能科技地區但當你從ESG投資中的環境觀點來看會發現許多不同的盤股規模

So it's not just small caps or mid caps large caps there's good breadth across all of them.
所以不只是小市值股、中型股票或是大盤股而是有充裕的幅度

When we look at the sectoral representation of a lot of these these factors, we're seeing that is quite deep if we look at the on the market cap of all of what we would call green economy type of sectors.
當我們查看這些因素的部門代表將會發現所謂的綠色經濟股票市值其實是蠻深的

So all of the you know environmentally you know companies that we score in an environmental basis and we compare that to the market cap of broad indices we're finding that grouping is competitive with you know things like retail and a lot of really large established businesses. 
所以以環境投資方面來說是相當成功的而且當我們將其與股票市值指數對比後發現這個商業集團在零售以及其他大型企業來看是具有競爭力的

So I think the opportunity set is more diverse than people think it's larger than people think and it's more global.
所以我認為機會集合比大眾想得還要更多元、更廣大也更全球性

It's definitely not unique to any one region so I think those are probably some of the big myths that are out there.
當然對於任何地區都不會是唯一的所以我想這些大概就是普遍較常聽到的誤解

Tony, I have imaged that company  is really focus on ESG outperform others that don't do, you see that within the ETF set that focus on ESG or the indexes that they outperform relative to companies that don't focus on government's?
Tony，我有在腦海中想像有採納ESG投資的公司將會勝過其他公司，你看將交易所買賣基金聚集在ESG投資或是指標上會發現它比那些沒有運用公司治理投資來得更有優勢嗎?

Yeah so, there's definitely a you know a range of performance outcomes where we've seen
some of the strongest out performance and in fact as Alec was referencing.
恩，當然你會看到一系列的績效成果，包含Alec所提到的某些絕佳表現

Some of the environmentally formatic benchmarks that we calculate that either, focus on subsets of the universe that look at companies bringing green solutions to the market, or integrating sort of, let's call it a wide range of climate oriented strategies.
以環境結構作為基準來計算會看到要嘛公司試圖在股票市場提出有效的綠色解決方案或是結合所謂的氣候導向的一系列策略

into both their operational risk management, as well as their product offering, strong our performance across all variations of those. 
來應對經營風險管理以及供應品來提升我們的工作情況

So, one of the important things to keep in mind here is that there's a range of approaches.
所以需要記在腦海中的是有許多不同的途徑

When we talk about ESG sustainable investment, there's all sorts of different ways investors might actually implement those strategies, ranging from stewardship and engagement through to exclusionary or divestment focused strategies, through to more integrated holistic approaches to, that are a bit more subtle.
當我們談到ESG可持續投資時會發現到投資方有許多不同的方式來實施那些策略，像是管理工作、接觸至排除性、撤資還有較為謹慎的機能整體處理法

In the way you might incorporate some of the weightings and allocations.
來達到權重及配額度

And certainly, in the green thematic, we see a out performance across all of those approaches.
當然在綠色議題上我們看出某些較為出色的方式

Well, I mean there certainly is desire out there investors want to be part of the ESG movement.
恩，我認為天下的投資者都渴望參與ESG 運動

So you think there's more pressure on public companies to disclose how they're managing, their ESG strategy?
所以你覺得公眾公司會面臨需要公開自家管理 ESG 策略的壓力嗎?

Yes, certainly I think it mostly comes from investors right now.
當然，我覺得大部份是來自投資者

There's some regulatory pressure in Europe and Asia if we as we mentioned.
當然也有我們所提到的歐洲、亞洲的管理壓力

But it mostly comes from investors.
但主要都是來自投資方

Traditionally, it's been ESRI space and the ESG thematic space, but now it's mainstream like watch Blackrock and other investment institutions that talk about this pretty prominently.
以往來說都是ESRI、 ESG空間為主但現在的主流變成觀望貝萊德和其他投資機構大量地談論這些議題

But then there's also these other drivers in the space that are affecting companies, too at the operational level, supply chain, they're being increasingly pressured to disclose on the ESG or to qualify for business and to win bids on contracts.
當然在操作方面來說也有其他空間驅動器會影響公司，環境、社會和公司治理供應鏈面對更多曝光壓力或是合格企業以獲得合約

There's some data providers or trying to clean up the space and get better cleaner calculation methodologies for the metrics that we actually drive decision-making.
有些數據提供器嘗試清出空間以獲取更有效的公制計算方式並幫助公司做出選擇

And then, last but not least, we don't want to forget the social capital piece of this.
最後，我們也不能忘記社會資本這一塊

There's a piece of this that appeals directly to current and prospective employees, and so the talent war for that talent is increasingly hedged on ESG performance.
其中一方面正呼籲著留住員工及未來員工，人才爭奪戰也逐漸地影響著環境、社會和公司治理的績效評估

Right, I think it's interesting that when you talk about talent is being driven to that space as well, what are some of the parameters when you look at a company to decide the base or well, on the ESG map, right?
恩，令我感興趣的是當你提到運用人才時公司決定自家總部位置的因素是什麼?

Because it's easy to say, look we focus on ESG, but how do you dive deep when you do that analysis that? What you do in fact score well on these models?
我們可以輕鬆地表明自己專注在環境、社會和公司治理上但是當你發現這些模式確實是有效益的時後要如何不顧一切地投入

I would say we start with a perspective that we should be clear about what we're assessing.
我會說讓我們清楚去了解到自己到底在評估什麼

There's a difference between company's operational impacts and risk, from an ESG perspective, and the impact of their products from an ENS perspective.
以環境、社會和公司治理的角度來說，營運影響與操作風險是不同的還有入境簡要申報對於產品影響的看法

So you could imagine a solar panel company, for example, where you would say well clearly that's a clean product that has an environmental benefit.
所以你可以想像太陽能板公司，大家都會認為是有益環境的未汙染產品

But the way in which they manufacture that product may not necessarily have strong environmental standards or social or governance practices.
但是生產的過程未必符合環境標準或是社會、治理作法

So, from our perspective, we want to separate those two things.
所以從我們的角度來看必須清楚地將兩件事情分開

Look at them through each respective lens, and then work with each client that we may engage with around.
以不同角度來分析情況並藉此與全球潛在客戶來談合作

You know, what are your preferences? What are your overall objectives? How can we align this with your wider investment beliefs?
你的喜好是什麼? 你的整體目標是什麼? 我們該如何將它們容納進你的投資理念?

And the resulting approach then is, are you going to be quite, let's say exclusionary in the way you might take a binary decision to include or exclude companies based on your preferences?
然後最終做法是要以二元判定法來決定公司要將哪些喜好容納或是排除

Or do you want to be more nuanced? 
或是你想要有更細微的差別嗎?

Try and maintain broad market exposure, try and achieve an investment experience similar to, let's say, the underlying index universe but reweight within that using some of the characteristics that we might take from either side the product side or the operational side.
嘗試維持股市投資比率、試圖累積投資經驗好比參考產品線或是生產線的特點來重新評估潛在的指數

We demand that certainly there are you seeing translate into flows or people like putting their money where their mouth is.
我們可以清楚看到大眾以行動證明

Yeah absolutely, I think you know from two dimensions.
絕對地，以兩個層面來看

I think it's fair to say institutional is sort of leading on this, and we see particularly some of the largest assets globally.
我想可以老實的說公共機構是目前的主導者而且握有龐大的資產

But retail will be very very quick to follow both in breath and level of sophistication, I think it's fair to say.
但是零售也會加緊腳步追上精密程度

And in fact, adopting many of the sort of learnings and techniques that the institutional space maybe have refined over the years?
事實上，所采用的制度性空間學習技巧或許也在這幾年有逐漸改善嗎?

Well, let's go back to you, Alec.
恩，讓我們回到Alec這邊

Do you think that this is simply a trend or something that's gonna be long-term and sustainable?
你認為這只就是個趨勢或是將來會成為長期可持續的東西?

No, I think this is very much long-term and sustainable.
不只是個趨勢，我認為這將會演變成長期且可持續的情況

And maybe going back to some of those drivers that I mentioned earlier, things like increasing technological power and access to data, those are the kinds of things that are gonna make refining the way you can screen companies easier and easier to do.
或許回頭看看我前面所提到的其他驅使動力，像是提升技術水平和資料存取，精煉這些技術將可以更輕鬆地測試檢驗公司

And obviously, climate change I think is a long-term imperative.
明顯地，我認為氣候變遷將會是長期抗爭

So no, I don't see this going away if anything.
所以我不覺得短期內環境、社會和公司治理投資會消失

I think eventually, you're gonna be able to do to a ESG oriented index, what you can do to a cap weighted index today so you could look at low volatility ESG or high beta ESD, or high dividend-paying.
最終我想ESG導向指數可以達到目前市值加權指數所能做到的，所以你可以查看ESG低波動度投資、ESD貝塔系數或是高紅利率

So, I think it'll all evolve and eventually, I think the Russell 1000 or the Russell 2000 or the S&P 500.
所以我認為ESG將會持續演變，最終羅素1000指數、羅素2000指數或是標普500

Those indices will all be ESG.
這些指數都會變成環境、社會和公司治理

I think you won't be able to have a broad market index in 30 or 40 years that doesn't incorporate a lot of these facts.
我想在未來30、40年裡你不會看到非ESG的市場指數

It's almost like if you want to be global asset manager, you have to be onboard, right?
幾乎就像是如果你想成為全球資產管理就得妥協，對吧?

So, it's like unless you have a clear ESG strategy, you're just not gonna be a part of the index, or you're not gonna be in festival.
所以除非你握有明確的環境、社會和公司治理策略否則無法加入這個饗宴

Well, I think at the end of the day investment decision-making will be incorporating these issues, right?
恩，我想最終能影響投資決定的因素會包含這些論點，對嗎?

I mean all of this is about a broadening out of our conceptual expectation and understanding of risk and opportunity for individual companies and at the portfolio level.
我的意思是這些都是為了走出概念性預期並了解私人企業在投資組合上的風險和機會

I don't really think it's any longer acceptable to close your eyes and ears to the potential that there's financial risk, material financial risk, from ENS factors.
我不認為大眾可以再繼續選擇性忽略入境簡要申報係數可能面臨的財務風險、重大財務風險

Now, the challenge lies in figuring out for you, either as a fund manager, or as an overall financial institution.
眼前的挑戰是如何以資金管理者或是財務機構來解決

What are those risk factors and how are they relevant to you because that's not there's not one uniform answer there.
有哪些風險因素然後它們與你的關聯是什麼因為沒有絕對的答案

Right.
是的

But it means that through all these enablers like better technology and more data improved disclosure, we'll be able to continue to improve our answers to those questions.
但這也代表這些使能指數像是更進步的技術和提高資料公開率讓我們可以持續地改善對於這些問題的答覆

Right, and Evan that's the question I want to follow up with you.
恩，Evan 關於這點我想問你一下

What are some of the challenges facing companies in providing data to show yesterday compliance?
目前公司對於提供資料以證實過往順應性所會面臨到的挑戰有什麼?

Well, first and foremost, time, resources, money, I mean all the things you hear about expertise in-house whether they have the expertise to interpret the data signals and perform and report on them.
首先最重要的就是時間、資源和金錢，所有你知悉的內部自有專長不管是分析數據信號、執行還是匯報

A lot of companies are confused or unsure about which reporting channels are legitimate, and actually derive value for the for the firm and which ones are sort of more esoteric.
許多企業不確定哪些匯報頻道是合法的而且可以為公司引申價值也更加機密的

Companies at all ends of the chain of being beset with questionnaires and requests for data from lots of different institutions and some have more low-end or more impact than others.
對於來自不同層級機構的數據問卷調查要求，公司各個部門飽受困擾

And I think also, there's a sense that the business case is still a little bit unproven for companies.
我也認為企業的商業案例依舊尚未被證實

Companies want to report, they want to get rewarded by investors for reporting good performance, but they have not necessarily been put at the front of class right yet.
公司想要匯報好表現以得到投資方的獎勵，但是它們目前尚未得到該有的回報

So, there's a certain sort of hesitancy about whether or not the VSU performance actually is correlating in terms of some of these investor dynamics that they really want.
所以他們對於VSU表現是否真的與預期的投資者動力有一定關聯性產生了某些疑慮

Right, so what are some of the solutions that we're working on to help companies make these decisions?
恩，所以我們目前所能提供幫助企業做決定的解決方法有什麼?

Constant engagement on the business case, so trying to draw the line between ESG performance disclosure and connections with investors, connections with stakeholders, connections with talent, all those kinds of things that have a bottom line impact.
不斷地去接觸那些會影響盈虧的商業案例然後試圖公開環境、社會和公司治理表現、與投資方、股東、人才的關係

Constantly trying to tinker with and improve the calculation methodology so that everything we do is based on data.
再接再厲地去修補改進計算方式好讓公司的一切數據化

There's a data performance metric for all of these things that it is measurable and trendabl over time.
隨著時間飛逝，當今可測量的東西都有數據績效指標

This isn't just a do you have a policy or don't have a policy, this isn't a good feeling, this is something about actually generating returns that are based on facts.
這不僅僅只是有沒有策略或是好預感，這攸關是否確實能依據實際狀況來獲取利潤

It's amazing how everything just comes back to data.
讓人不可置信地，終究一切還是回歸到數據上

And I think increasingly, the way that this has worked or I should say historically the way that this has worked is we're looking at by and large nonuniform voluntarily reported information, right?
而且根據以往的方式或是慣例，我們目前查閱的都是大量不一致的自願呈報資料，對吧?

Companies are the source of the information that's being analyzed.
公司本身正是被分析的資訊來源

One of the pressures that will compel them to improve both the quantity and quality of that disclosure, is the fact that other data sources will increasingly feed into investor views.
壓力點是要說服他們提升已公布事實的數量和質量因為投資方將會陸續地接收到許多其他不同的數據來源

And the companies will want to be able to control that narrative a bit more firmly.
然後公司也會想要更穩定地掌控敘述式(數據通信的消息格式之一)

And to be able to say, actually, we don't want you getting your data from another source that is sort of either a media source or some other industry report, we want you to be coming to us.
事實上，我們不想要你從其他來源像是媒體源或是其他產業報告來獲取數據，我們想成為投資方唯一的數據來源

And therefore, the pressure will be to make sure that it's very valid.
因此，我們需要確保自資料是有根據的

Exactly, who's sanctioning this report or where is it coming from?
沒錯，是誰批准的報告或是它的來源地

In regulatory trends to Tony's point are shifting and that's one of the things that's going to compel companies to disclose more.
依據Tony的看法，歸管趨勢正慢慢地在改變而這將會是說服企業公開更多資訊的一點

I know on the ballot next week in Oregon is pricing carbon.
我知道下禮拜俄勒岡州的不記名投票將會進行碳定價

They would be the first state to do that.
它們是史上首州完成這個壯舉的

I think eventually, that'll be globally Universal and that'll be a big imperative.
最終這將會成為全球性普遍的情形

Where there's a capitalist incentive to start that's more strictly on the environmental side doesn't really have much to do with social and governance.
將會有資本家鼓勵多開發環境方面而不單單是社會和公司治理表現

But speaking environmentally pricing carbon can be a very big catalyst and that's a regulatory shift something that governments require and that will force companies to really take this increasingly serious and to disclose a lot more data.
但眼前的碳定價情形可能成為極大催化劑且間接轉變成政府所需的規管並強迫公司漸漸接受然後公開更多資訊

And it'll allow investors to to screen much more effectively because they'll have the government requiring a lot of this.
這也會允許投資方能更有效地完成檢驗因為他們將獲得政府的協助

From the capital markets perspective, is ESG reporting regulated at this point or is it still arbitrary?
從資本市場角度來看，目前是否控管環境、社會和公司治理報告還是依舊隨機的?

In some places, there are some exchange rules around it in different parts of the world.
在全世界的某些地方仍有一些交易機制

There's an EU non-reporting financial directive that trips up some US companies but it's mostly     your companies there's Asian corporate governance directives and disclosure rules around annual report that Terkel content you have to put in there.
目前歐洲聯盟指令羈絆著美國公司但主要還是亞洲企業管制命令公開條款影響著年度報告所需呈報的內容

But it is still fairly wide open, certainly wide open in the US.
儘管如此，在美國還是有很多開放性

Right, like was to determine what your partner in ESG, you fit that model for exactly health care, is there a lot of health care actually in ESG or?
恩，像是決定你的環境、社會和公司治理夥伴並試圖容納醫療保健服務， ESG投資有包含醫療保健服務嗎

Well, again it depends on the different dimensions that that you do want to look at.
這個又再度回到你看事情的不同角度上

And I think we're from a disclosure sort of rationale and argument point.
我認為我們秉持公開合理論點

The main emphasis is around materiality, right?
主要強調的點是在於重要性原則，是嗎?

So, the infrastructure and the regulations are already in place that companies should be reporting material risks to their shareholders and the market more widely, right?
所以適當的基礎建設和條例使公司需要更廣泛地向股東匯報市場重大風險，對嗎?

So, then it's really about to Evan’s point, making the case that there exists already today environmental and social issues and governance issues that fit within that definition of materiality that should already be part of those disclosures.
所以就像Evan所說的，需要將已存在的環境、社會和公司治理問題案例容納重要性原則並將其公開

Rather than requiring some new framework or new obligation to disclose, it's about saying actually you should already be providing information that is material and that necessarily shouldn't exclude ENS issues.
而不是制定新的體系或公開規定，事實上你們已經在提供重要資訊所以不應該排除入境簡要申報問題

Well, the reason I was asking healthcare because let's say Suma company is doing everything from a regulatory perspective but then, who's to say if depending on your morals or your ethics does healthcare fit into a space like that?
我之所以提起醫療保健服務是因為假設Suma公司以監管角度來執行一切，但誰能保證將醫療保健服務安置於這樣的空間是具倫理道德的?

So then, I'm using that as an example because, how do we decide what ethically or morally these companies fit into that category, what if I don't think climate change is a big deal, right?
所以，我以這個為例因為我們該如何決定哪些公司適合這樣的類別，或許我不認為氣候變遷很重要，對吧

Disclosure isn't about ethics and morals, right?
資訊揭露與倫理道德無關，對吧?

It's about providing valuable information to the market.
資訊揭露是提供市場重要的訊息

Then it's on to the users to determine their preferences, and many investors would sort of look at this as a, what's financially materials what I want to focus on.
接著讓使用者決定自己的喜好然後許多投資者就可以決定想要投入的方向

And then it's on the investor to make that case.
接下來就是讓投資方開始運作

And if there are specific segments of the market that have a particular moral or ethical view or preference, they can build that into their portfolios.
如果市場有具體倫理道德想法或喜好的部份也可以將它們內建投資組合裡

But by and large, that's not what's driving ESG.
但整體來說，這不是驅使環境、社會和公司治理的動力

It's the investor at the end of the day, that's going to decide whether or not they think that you fit into that category if they're buying or selling it.
最終還是在於買賣投資方來決定你適不適合

And is it just Millennials that are interested in this segment, or is it more broad than just that?
只有千禧世代對於這個環節有興趣嗎還是更廣泛?

I certainly think it's  broader.
我絕對認為更普遍的

I mean certainly the trend didn't start with the millennial generation, right?
這個趨勢不是起源於千禧世代，對吧?

I mean I think it's the largest institutional investors in the world that have been leading this, right?
我認為是全世界的機構投資方在引領這個潮流，不是嗎?

And now you have a certain client base that is reflective of shifting consumer preferences across the board, not just in investments all sorts of things where they're trying to be more focused and align their consumer choices with their individual values.
然後現在你握有一定的客戶群而他們正在改變消費者偏好，不只是在投資上面並試圖將其它消費者權利與個別值劃上等號

You'll see that in the Investment space.
你們將會在投資空間看到

But ultimately again, what's going to change behavior in the markets is not a moral or ethical dimension and compulsion, it's about the financially relevant environmental essential issues.
但最終改變市場行為的不是倫理道德層面和強制力而是主要經濟相關環境問題

Well, let's get some forward-looking thoughts moving into 2019 over the next 5-10 years, what you focus on?
恩，邁入2019年的同時也讓我們討論接下來5-10年的看法，需要專注在什麼上面?

What do you think the landscape is gonna look like, is it gonna that focus come back to data?
你覺得未來景象會變成怎麼樣，它會重新回到數據上嗎?

Yeah, I think it does come back today I think you'll find more harmonization, more unification of different frameworks.
恩，我認為目前已經是了，你會在不同結構裡看到更多一致性

I think you'll find different frameworks partnering together and working together at least correlating if not actually combining.
你會發現不同體系即便沒有結盟但仍然互相合作

So, I think that the landscape will become less cluttered.
所以我覺得未來景觀會比較有秩序

I think though some of these standards will rise to the top and they will actually become default standards for the reporting industry.
我認為這些規範會興起並成為報導產業的內建標準

And maybe they become written into rules, maybe they come part of the accounting standards, maybe not.
或許甚至被寫入規範、或許成為會計準則的一部分也或許不會

But at least it'll get more formalized, and I think that to Tony's point earlier because of a broadening out in the investor perspective.
但至少會成為固定體系而原因正是前面Tony所提到的開拓投資方想法

I think there's been a slight broadening out of the fiduciary responsibility perspective also.
我覺得以信託責任角度來說目前已經有某些展開

So that's why I think it's not just Millennials as people in companies that are sort of coming to a better understanding of the sources of value, long-term value for the company.
所以我才認為不僅僅是千禧世代，企業族群也同時需要了解公司的價值來源和長期價值系統

Besides, what we've talked about for 50 years.
除了我們50年來一直在討論的

Right, and Alec, I’ll have to ask you the same question is well from both of your perspectives, what do you think the industry is going to look like?
恩，Alec我有同樣的問題要問你，從你的觀點來看產業會變成什麼樣子呢?

I think it's gonna be much much larger, both in terms of the number of people that are dedicated to following these trends day to day, and also in terms of assets under management that are benchmark to ESG oriented strategy.
我認為每天跟隨這個潮流的人數還有以環境、社會和公司治理策略為基準的資產管理都會持續地增加

I think it's just sort of up and to the right pretty much across the board.
我認為這將會是全面性現象

And things like government regulation will mandate the disclosure of certain data sets.
政府規例將會要求公開某些資料組

It'll allow investors to screen every company in an index across that one metric.
允許投資方可以檢驗每個公司所制定的指數

Like, for example, carbon pricing.
舉例來說像是碳定價

Once that happens every cut that's immediately material to Tony's point.
當它開始發生時，每次削減都是Tony口中的即時重要資訊

It's financially material and every company will have to disclose that, and it'll be very easy to do a screen of who's scoring well, who's scoring below-average, etc.
它是金融資訊然後每家企業需要將其公佈便可以輕鬆地檢查誰狀況良好、誰沒有達標...等

So, all of these things, I think are gonna be increasing the adoption.
所以這一切將會逐漸被採納

And then obviously, as a baseline, technology really enables a lot of it.
無庸置疑地，以科技為基線來說真的幫助許多

I think the climate change aspect really drives a lot of it.
我認為氣候變遷層面真的帶動很多潮流

And those two forces I think our technology is only gonna get better, climate change, unfortunately, I think is also here to stay.
而科技只會持續地進步；不幸地，氣候變遷問題也會繼續存在

So I think those are kind of two macro forces that, it's hard to see, and this doing anything but sort of forge forward over time.
我認為大家無法輕易地看出但這兩大因素將會慢慢雛形

All right, in Tony final thoughts.
好的，來聽聽Tony最後要補充的說明

Yeah, I think there's been a constant search for consensus around definitions and standards.
我認為大眾自今仍不斷在搜索標準定義的共識

Not necessarily from a disclosure point of view because I agree with Evans point on where that's kind of going more in a sort of investor approaches.
不光是公開資訊方面，我認同Evan所說的這更傾向於投資者策略

And sort of what is or isn't sustainable investment.
什麼是可持續投資；什麼不是可持續投資

Personally, I think we've been you know in the 14 plus years, I've been doing this that's been a constant theme.
就個人而言，我已經在這個產業待超過14年了而可持續投資仍舊是不變的主題

I don't think there we're gonna reach that and I kind of think it's the wrong question to search and answer for.
我不覺得大眾可以達到共識而且我也認為這是個無解的錯誤問題

I think scale will define that in large part in terms of the largest asset owners asset managers and the strategies that they follow will sort of define some of those approaches that become a bit more standardized for ESG integration.
我認為規模將會解釋許多資產擁有者、資產管理者還有他們所遵循的策略並說明那些標準化的環境、社會和公司治理方式

And I think one of them that certainly, I would expect from a index and passive perspective is being able to build some of these characteristics into the way that you would construct a benchmark, either for the purposes of traditional measurement tool or passive implementation.
在那之中我預期可以從指數還有被動性角度將某些特點納入建構基準，不管是為了傳統測量工具還是被動型投資

Alright I’ll be interested to see how ESG evolves over the next five to ten years for sure.
好的，我很期待看到環境、社會和公司治理在未來5-10年的演變

Thank you very much for joining us at market sight and thank you for joining me.
感謝您的參與及收看

I'm Jill Melandrino, Global Market Reporter at Nasdaq.
我是Jill Malandrino，"納斯達克"的全球市場記者
 

Copyright Announcement: The above videos are  from the official Youtube channel of the organization. Nasdaq TradeTalks: Growing Influence in ESG Investing https://www.youtube.com/user/nasdaqomx . The videos we selected are all publicly available on the official channel, and we do not own the copyright of these videos. Our work on Chinese translation for this film is free for the 1.2 billion audiences in Mandarin Chinese around the world to watch and learn SDGs and SROI advertising campaigns.