Fox Business：Amazon avoids paying federal taxes for second year in a row

But first, a new fox new reveals americans are split on whether capitalism in the United States gives people like them a fair shot.
但在新的福斯揭密中，美國人正分成兩派，關於美國政府和資本主義是否給予像他們這樣的人一個公平的機會。

47% say yes.
47%說給。

42% say no way.
42%不給。

This has the worlds tax collector trying to find ways to divvy up tech giants billions.
讓全世界的稅務人員試圖找到方法來制住這個擁有數十億美元的科技巨頭。

Amozon is paying zero federal income taxes for the second year in a row.
亞馬遜已經連續第二年不需要支付任何聯邦所得稅。

For more and all of this, let’s bring in the panel, Democrats’ strategist, Jon summer,Beverly Hallberg, sees as the independent form fellow and she’s a district  group leade.r 

關於這個議題，我們帶來小組成員：民主黨策畫人Jon summer，Beverly hallburg，獨立研究員，且是地區小組組長。

And also David’s bonson back  with us as well.
然後當然還有David’s bonson。

Beverly, let me start with you. 
Beverly，從你開始問。

The big mainstream news  out of everything i just talked about was Amazon not paying any federal income taxes for two years in a row, how did they do it?
這個我剛剛在談論的重大新聞是，亞馬遜不用支付任何聯邦所得稅連續兩年了，他們怎麼做到的？

Well, they figure out how to use those loopholes.
好的，他們找到如何使用法律漏洞的方法。

Unfortunately, this is turning into seems to be a attack on lower on the corporate tax rate, which I think is a good thing for most businesses especially small businesses and middle businesses that are out there.
很不幸的這變成一種挑釁，在剛調降企業所得稅額的現在我認為調降是好事，對眾多企業來說，特別是中小型企業。

But what Amazon is able to do is use some of those loopholes, people call it cronyism, to figure out how to legally avoid paying taxes.
但亞馬遜所做的是，是用法律漏洞來合法的避免要繳交的稅，也就是人們說的官商勾結。

So what we need to do is keep corporate tax rate low but make sure there aren’t some loopholes that they can get away withㄡ
所以我們要做的是保持調降的公司稅率，但要確保沒有一些漏洞，讓他們可以逃脫。

What’s the democratic narrative for all of this?
民主黨又是麼看待這件事呢?

When a democratic hear that Amazon paid no federal income taxes, do you just get real exited and popping a champagne?
當你們聽到亞馬遜公司不用支付聯邦所得稅時，你們有沒有興奮到開始開香檳慶祝了？

No, I think quite the oppisite as you all know.
不，我認為正好相反。

Democratic are all for making sure that everyone you know, pays their fare share.
民主黨員們都希望大家確實的繳交被分配到的稅額。

I know but I’m saying from a political point of view, this is some delicious stuff going into 
2020.
我知道，但我的意思是從政治角度看來，這是一個很棒的機會，在展望2020方面。

Yeah,I hear what you’re saying.
是的，我了解。

I think, you know, it’s a good indication of why people in New york were so upset, with the deal with Amazon was been….you know , hadn’t been working out with the city of new york.
我認為這個狀況很明顯，我們了解紐約人們為何因無法跟亞馬遜達成共識而感到沮喪。

So I can see now why people were so upset. I’m not surprised that things has gone south as fast as they have.
而我現在也深刻體會到他們的不快了，但我不會驚訝於雙方破局的這麼快。

I think what we’re saying now is an example of the ….I’d like the officials listening to their constituent.
我認為現在是人民在警告政府以此為戒，希望官方政府聆聽民意。

It’ll be interesting to see if amazon decides to come back to the table, but I don’t think they will.
如果亞馬遜要重回談判桌的話肯定會很有趣，但我認為他們不會。

Yeah David, Two years in a row they hadn’t pay any..any federal taxes. 
是的。大衛，你知道他們連續兩年沒有繳稅。

And you know, the narrative is that this is one of the richest company in the world, with the richest man in the world. How do they not pay federal income taxes?
而且這是全世界一間極度富有的公司，一群極度富有的人，他們怎麼可以不用繳納所得稅？

See I really think it’s important that those of us on the right to upose cronyism and we talk so much about a lot on the last set miles on.
我真的覺得我們是有權利去反對裙帶關係的，而且我們有在此方面做出許多標誌性的建樹。

But also those of us who defend the low corporate tax rate for everybody get this right on the Amazon thing.
那些在保護低稅率制的人也在呼籲要盡快處理好亞馬遜這類的問題。

I disagree with the earlier guess that there are loopholes is to the reason why they didn’t pay  tax since last year.
我不同意用先前的"法律漏洞"來解釋他們為什麼連續兩年不用繳稅。

The new tax bill got rid of all these loopholes, it lefts two that I wish it gotten rid of.
新的稅制法修掉了所有的漏洞，只下兩個我認為需要改進的。

But the R&D credit and the low-income housing development credit, they’re very difficult to get rid of politically. It’s really a hand out to big farmbot on the R&D more than anything else. 
但是研究與開發抵免法案和低收入戶房屋稅抵免法案在政治立場上是很難去做更動的。尤其是研究與開發抵免法案更是比其他得更大方的提供抵免額。

But those are the only two loopholes that were left. 
但這兩個是僅剩的兩個漏洞。

The reason it should be more of concerned to investors, it shouldn’t be to tax payers, that amazon didn’t pay tax because they don’t make real profits.
我們真正該注意的是投資，而非繳稅；亞馬遜不需要繳稅，只是因為他沒有盈餘。

Now, the fact that matters is here that they did spend a lot of money last year as one-time capital expenditure. And thanks to president Trumps’ new tax bill , those are fully deductible last year.
而事實上，他們真的有花一大筆錢在許多資本支出上，而多虧了川普的新稅制，這些都是可以全額抵免的稅。

When the past would had amortize over a long period of the time, I don’t know why we’re upset about that, that was very stimulating for economic growth.
這會在結束後有很常一段時間的效益，我不知道為什麼要因為這點不高興；這個舉動非常刺激經濟的成長。

But Beverly, you know people are gonna say okay, this is the example of how president Trumps tax cuts help rich businesses but now they’re looking the thing that, I didn’t get the same break.
但Beverly你知道人們會認為這樣是好的嗎？川普總統的減稅政策是如何和大企業互利互惠，但如果其他企業也想這麼做，卻沒有得到相同有利的對待。

Yeah, this is a narrative that democratics are gonna use.
這方面也是民主黨的人會攻擊的點。

Well I think it’s always interesting about bringing up Amazon.
我認為談到亞馬遜的問題一直都十分有趣。

They haven’t been talking about the subsidies that they did receive or going to receive to move to Virginia.
他們對他們要移去維吉尼亞州的時候，已經、或即將收到的免稅額隻字未提。

We saw that apparently Jeff Bezos just broke up with New York city on Valentines day. 
我們可以看到，Jeff Bezos在情人節跟紐約市分手。

They’re not gonna be going to New York city, going to Queens there.
他們不會再回到紐約市，不會再回到皇后區了。

But these subsidies that are going to Amazon, why don’t people talk about that as much?
 I think that’s extremely concerning you shouldn’t have to pay someone to come to your state and do business.
但這些政府提供給亞馬遜的免稅額，卻不見人們談起；我認為這十分令人擔憂，大家都知道你們不該付錢叫人來自己的州做生意。

But for whatever reason, it seems fine when it nabing subsidies. 
但是不知為何改成免稅稅額好像就沒問題。

But when you take a look at the taxes, at what Amazon actually brings.
但是你看看現在的新稅制，再看看亞馬遜能帶來什麼實質的東西。

They brings a lot of business. They bring a lot of jobs.
他們帶來許多訂單，許多的工作機會。

And Jon we’re talking about subsidising the entire remaking of America from airplane travel to what we eat.
Jon我們現在在談論的是免稅額改動是包含整個美國產業，從飛航運輸到餐飲...

We're talking about a multi- perhaps a hundred trillion dollar makeover that I guess eventually will be subsidies by the American taxpayer.
我們在談論的是一個多元...動輒好幾億美元的抵免額；我認為這些抵免掉的稅最後會從其他納稅人們身上收取。

It is a difficult thing right. Because that’s the… there are a lot of ways that cities can compete with one another.
這真的是很複雜的事情，因為城市之間很常可以去做競爭。

They compete on education, compete on things that around their environment, and they compete in tax stuff.
他們做教育上的競爭，環境競爭，還有稅務方面的競爭。

But I’m talking about the green new deal, the green new deal that democrats are talking about the same sort of things that they’re bored with corporations. But to remake the entire economic gekko system of the United States.
但我在討論的是綠色新政這一塊，由民主黨提出的綠色新政也是差不多的事情，關於他們如何厭倦企業文化，要如何對美國的經濟狀況做一個全面的整合。

Well the green new deal is a proposal looks out there.
綠色新政是一個已經在進行審核的提案，我認為這是一個很有未來展望的提案

I think it’s a ambitious proposal if the senate’s gonna vote on it, I hope they go through the normal legislative process. Have debates, committed hearing on it. And offer a permittents to make it better.
如果參議院要投票，我希望在那之前他們可以經過正常的立法管道，舉辦辯論和聽證會，然後提供相關XX來使提案更加完善。

Okay David.
好的，換David。

Well my final thought is just that it’s very important that we be consistent and how we approach it.
我最後有個想法是真正重要的是要如何處理和堅持自己的立場，在這個問題上。

What we want is economic growth and we don’t have to had crony deals to do it.
我們需要的是經濟成長，而我們不需要官商勾結的裙帶關係來達到這個目的。

And there’s two things that happen at the Amazon’s on the news.
有兩件事情是在亞馬遜新聞上看到的。

 This thing in new york , in Virginia, completely agreed with Beverley. That was cronyism should not happen.
紐約和維吉尼亞州的免稅額上，我同意Beverley，這絕對是官商勾結，而且不該發生。

That was Amazon trying to take tax payer money.
這是亞馬遜公司在拿納稅人的錢。

However, then paying little or no tax on the federal rate is simply the buyer parts of the tax code.
但在他們繳太少聯邦所得稅方面，就只是很簡單的稅制問題。

Simplified the entire tax code that everyone pay their share. But in this particular case, Amazon didn’t have profits. That’s the reason.
因為新的精簡版稅制的關係，每個人都有該繳納的稅額，但因為亞馬遜沒有營利，所以不用繳納稅額，就是這麼簡單。

Okay, thank Jon, David and Beverley. Thank you all very much.
好的，謝謝 Jon, David and Beverley
 

 

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